Simon [00:00:00]: Today is the seventh of October, 2026. My name is Simon Perry. I am doing a recording of an oral history with Julie Cocker, and it’s for the Flame Keepers Project, which is about Ronson’s factory in Newport on Forest Road. I’ve been asked to do this by Discover More. So, hello, Julie.
Julie [00:00:28]: Hello, Simon.
Simon [00:00:29]: Hello. Thanks for doing this today. Can you tell me your full name?
Julie [00:00:37]: Julie Cocker.
Simon [00:00:39]: Okay. And the year you were born,
Julie [00:00:41]: 1960.
Simon [00:00:43]: And what was the name of your mum and dad?
Julie [00:00:47]: Mum’s name was Hazel, and my dad’s name was Derek.
Simon [00:00:51]: And what did they do?
Julie [00:00:52]: So initially, we used to live up north in Rochdale, and mum and Dad had a corner shop, and then, but Dad was a plumber, and Mum looked after the shop and three children. So I’m a twin. I’m an identical twin. My sister’s called Val, and I’ve got an older sister called Gillian, who is about five years older than us, and then we came to the Island.
Simon [00:01:28]: You were born in Rochdale.
Julie [00:01:29]: I was born in Rochdale.
Simon [00:01:32]: At a hospital up there?
Julie [00:01:33]: Yeah, Birch Hill, Birch Hill Hospital, and then when we were six, me and my twin were six. We came down to the Island. Dad had a job with a waterboard, and it actually came with a house. And mum and dad couldn’t believe it because it literally is a house within just fields. It was more or less derelict. You know, they had to do it up, which they did. You know, it’s got no mains gas, no sewage. They’ve got a tank, and actually, that’s where my sister still lives, Gill. That’s my older sister, and then Dad. So Dad worked for the water board, plumbing, I suppose. He ended up as a bylaw inspector before he retired.
Simon [00:02:32]: A what inspector?
Julie [00:02:33]: Bylaw, so things like in dentist surgeries when you the patient spits, he has to make sure because of AIDS and diseases, Hep C, etc. that the that went into a different filter, and like in farms, he used to go on the land to make sure that all the pipes for the animals, you know, and feeding things were yeah that type of thing. And Mum got a job at Ronson’s, and she ended up I don’t know where she started on on the jobs. Gill would, but she ended up being a chargehand, and she was also a shop shop steward as well with a whistle. Yeah, I think that was before her management.
Simon [00:03:33]: Okay.
Julie [00:03:33]: Yeah.
Simon [00:03:33]: Do you mind if I move the microphone just a little bit, no. Just, just if I put it, excuse me. Just put it there. How’s that looking? Is that okay?
Julie [00:03:39]: Am I too loud?
Simon [00:03:52]: No, perfect. These, these are quite sophisticated. They sort of work out if it’s loud or quiet, all that sort. Okay. So, what was you did a bit of school up in Rochdale?
Julie [00:04:05]: Yeah, the infants. You know, I when we moved, we moved to Bowcombe on the Island, and there was a school called Clatterford Road, and it was on Clatterford Road, and there was a house about 500 yards down from us, and they also had children the same age as me, Val, and Gill, and so we always used to walk to school together, which you could do in them days. So we used to just walk down, walk to school, and walk back again because mum worked and dad worked, and I don’t know where we kept the key. Gillian was always with us. She was five years older, but she went on to a school further down and caught the bus. I don’t know how we got it. I think they left the door open. Actually, I think they did when we come back. And then from there we went to the Junior school, and that also was in Carisbrooke, and I think then we got the bus. I think we were old enough to get the bus, and then I went to Node Hill.
Simon [00:05:13]: How did you find school? What was that like?
Julie [00:05:15]: I loved it actually. I did like it. I think when I went, I hate saying this, but it’s true. I was the cleverest of the three. I was more keen. Let’s put it that way, you know. So me and Val, we always went to school together. Always dressed the same. Always. God, we did in them days. You know, you’re talking 60 odd years, and we dressed the same. But I was brighter than Vall, and we got separated in class when we moved up to whatever school it was. We got separated, and that was awful. Not having your twin sister actually in school with you, and one day we decided to change because we are identical. We look the same. We decided to change classes, and when she struggled to read her reading book, and I sailed through that reading book, but we got caught out. We did get caught out, yeah.
Simon [00:06:22]: What what happened to you for doing the swap?
Julie [00:06:24]: Nothing really. I just think they sort of said, you know, you’re not you’re not Julie, are you? Or you’re not Val. And no, we it was only like for the day or a couple of hours, you know. But they knew, and so we went back. Yeah, I like school, but I think it went wrong for me at Carisbrooke High School.
Simon [00:06:47]: What was the distraction?
Julie [00:06:48]: And I’m jumping a bit now because I’ve got a daughter, and I made sure she went to a private school. I made sure the distraction, boys, bad behaviour, really. People not wanting to work, being disruptive, and I was one of them. And I remember, and this is, I remember when I first went up to Carisbrooke, and I wasn’t at a top grad by any means. I think they were sort of graded D, E, and Q or something, and I was in the middle. Val was with me. Was Val with me? Yeah, I think Val was in the same, in the same grading, but not necessarily the same class. And I remember after about two or three months there, I put my hand on the back door at home. I remember this vividly, and I am going to be like them. I am going to be like them, and they were the in crowd. You know the girls that always, you know, high heels. We’ve got pulled over the coals that many a time, smoking, oh dear. So yeah, so I started smoking at 13, ‘itching your skirt up, turning your skirt round, you know.
Simon [00:08:02]: Rolling over at the top?
Julie [00:08:13]: Yeah. Skiving school, and I remember my dad saw us once. My Dad was a soft touch. Bless your dad. Dad was a soft touch, and he used to say, “And you’re playing hooky, yeah. And we said, “Shh don’t say anything, don’t say anything to me Mum. And he knew, he knew we were skiving, but he never. He was a soft touch, but my Mum would have hit the roof, hit the the roof, so yeah, I didn’t try as hard. I don’t think really.
Simon [00:08:47]: Because the in crowd?
Julie [00:08:48]: Yeah.
Simon [00:08:48]: That wasn’t what the in crowd did?
Julie [00:08:50]: Yeah, you wanted to be one of those that were, I don’t know, liked instead of. I’m not saying the bullies, because we weren’t bullies by any stretch of the imagination, but we were not them that were swots. We used to call them swots, didn’t we? So I wasn’t a swot, and I knew I could do better, but I didn’t. I didn’t, and but I was really keen and always have been on PE, athletics. I was always good at PE. Always good at athletics. Did athletics club. Did PE club after school. Up to, well, no, I did it at high school. I did do it. Yeah, and I wanted to be a PE teacher. That’s what I really wanted to be. But I don’t know. I don’t think I had any real aspirations to continue because when we sort of had what’s it called?
Simon [00:09:56]: Careers advice.
Julie [00:09:57]: Careers advice. I think it was one hour. I think it was for one hour, and they said if you want to be a PE teacher, you can’t just be a PE teacher. You’ve got to do another subject. You cannot do another, you know, just PE on its own. So I was thinking about what I what I wanted to do, and there used to be, can’t believe this. There used to be Ryde Queen, but it used to be a, I suppose you called them discos, a nightclub, and my sister Gill used to go there. And for some unbeknown reason, I suppose Mum and Dad wanted peace and quiet. They actually was quite strict. They were strict. We could go out with them, with ill to this nightclub, and it was on a Thursday.
Simon [00:10:53]: What sort of age was that?
Julie [00:10:54]: 16.
Simon [00:10:55]: Okay.
Julie [00:10:57]: 16. It’s fine because you think well somewhere to go, but not when you know what I got up to. And no, I’m not. I’m not saying it. Not saying. We went. So one night we went. I think we’d been going quite a lot. This is how sad this is. I remember the date. It was Thursday, March the 12th, 1976. So I just turned 16, and I met this chap. And yeah, I suppose the rest is history, really. So I was 16 in January the 13th. Met him on March the 12th. Got engaged on my 17th birthday.
Simon [00:11:55]: Wow, wow!
Julie [00:11:56]: So consequently, when I met him, I knew, as he knew that we were going to get married, we just knew, and so of course, when it comes to deciding what to do, when it was going to school, literally it was let’s save up and get married and get a house.
Simon [00:12:16]: Right.
Julie [00:12:18]: So I was gonna think. What was I gonna say? I was gonna say something else. Then, you alright me saying this, thinking about it, because , my Mum and Dad got married when they were… my Mum was 18. Okay. And one thing I always said that I wouldn’t do is get married early, but they had an amazing marriage. They were married for 57 years until they died, and they had an amazing marriage. And I blamed my collapse of my marriage on them because they didn’t look like they had to try, you know. Anyway, so Mum said, “If you want to save up why don’t you come to Ronson’s? At the time, I think it was called Work’s Experience, and Gill was already working at Ronson’s. Gill, because we’d grown up in the country, wanted to work on a farm. But Mum said, “No, you’re not working on a farm. She’d have been ideal, Gill. She’d have been ideal on a farm. Anyway, she said, “Why don’t you come and do work experience? And Val said, “I’ll do it too.” So that’s what we did.
Simon [00:13:27]: So that was four of you there then, your Mum, Gill, Val, and you?
Julie [00:13:41]: Yeah, now, because I was in, I was really sort of wanting to save up because we we chatted about getting a house and that, and it’s like, what could you do, not being qualified for anything, and with that sort of money, and actually I took my mock exams and left. So I was still at school when I did the works experience. I can’t remember probably a month works experience, and when the works experience for me was working on the line when we’re actually making the lighters. I didn’t work on any other part of the factory, just the working on the two lines. They had two lines on there, and actually, I remember thinking this is all right because the camaraderie with the people, and that the majority were, I’d say, youngish. You know, they they weren’t particularly old, and yeah, I enjoyed it. It was good.
Simon [00:14:52]: Yeah. So, what age was that that you joined Ronson’s do you think?
Julie [00:14:55]: 16.
Simon [00:14:55]: Okay.
Julie [00:14:57]: 16. So it must have been…It was after March the 12th, because I didn’t know what I wanted to do when my Mum said do that, and I thought, what? Do it, yeah. And I remember saving 10 pound the first week out of my pay packet to save for a house at 16.
Simon [00:15:19]: I mean, 10 pounds of houses were probably what five grand then or something.
Julie [00:15:23]: My first house was, and this was in. I got married in 78, so it must have got married in August 78, so it must have been early 78, 11,250 pound.
Simon [00:15:39]: So 10 pounds towards that. Huge, yeah,
Julie [00:15:42]: Yeah, it was.
Simon [00:15:43]: No wonder it’s so tempting.
Julie [00:15:44]: We paid Mum, Mum and Dad keep. You know, we’ve always actually skipping a bit really. So we’ve always sort of valued money, if you know, because when we were 13, me and Val used to work at Stickworth Hall. Stickworth Hall is in Arreton, and it was a hotel. And Dad knew the owners, Graham and Dawn Brown, and they was looking for sort of people to work, you know, wash up, make sandwiches for the packed lunches, you know that type of thing, and so Graham said, “Yeah, bring them down.” So Dad used to take us to Arreton every weekend. We worked from 13, making the sandwiches, washing up the breakfast things, progressed to making, and I make the best now bechamel sauce. You know the white sauce. He used to make them in big pans, and he taught us how to make that. And then we used during summer holidays, we used to work full time, and Dad used to pick us up and drop us off. Bless him. Yeah, so you know I’m…
Simon [00:17:02]: Used to working then?
Julie [00:17:03]: Totally, yeah. And you know, Mum would always say, you know, save your money, and you know, you get what you want. And it was drilled into us, you know, if you spend ha’penny, more than you earn, and you’re in debt. You know, they never went in debt. They never sort of had credit cards or anything, you know. And it’s about the value of money, and yeah so I was used to saving because we used to save and buy things that we wanted, and you know, Mum used to buy it. They bought us a telly actually for our bedroom. Me and Val used to share a bedroom, and they bought a television. Bet you didn’t think that I’d be talking this much, did you?
Simon [00:17:27]: It’s all good. It’s all good.
Julie [00:17:29]: Because we worked, because we saved up. So yeah, the 10 pound was a lot. Absolutely, it was a lot, and we used to pay Mum and Dad three pound a week for keep.
Simon [00:18:00]: Okay. So that that was 16. What did you join as then? What was the first role you had at Ronson?
Julie [00:18:09]: Just being on the line. The training instructor was a lady called Claire, she was Italian, Rashino? Her husband used to have the Italian restaurant in Cowes.
Simon [00:18:25]: Okay, well, the one at the top of the town.
Julie [00:18:28]: I forget what it’s called. Might come to me. Might come to me. I forget. So, what Claire did was just teach you one thing on the line. So when you went in, that they’d tell you what job it was, and my job was to put the top plate onto a lighter. So I was probably the third job along the line, and that involved getting, it did, getting a top and a bottom and a screw and put it this in the machine, and that’s what I did. And I got bored, and what I did, I amended the way that she showed me how to do it. I’m not saying I’m truly ambidextrous because to be truly ambidextrous, you have to write with your left hand as well. But I use my left hand, I think, in day-to-day work just as much as my right, And so you’d pick the two lighters up, and I thought I can do this quicker this way. And so what I did instead of putting, just doing one lighter, is this all right? Saying this, how I’m doing it, instead of just doing one lighter.
Simon [00:20:00]: If you start describing bits, if you’ve left a description out, I might say, “Oh right, you know, this bit here or whatever.” If you gesture it rather than say it.
Julie [00:20:08]: Okay, I really will try and remember. So, as two lighters come up on the line, I would pick the two lighters up, put the two lighters down, and have one in front of me, and you used to have a duster.
Simon [00:20:23]: And this was a constantly going line in front of you.
Julie [00:20:26]: Yeah, yeah, the line was going, and obviously they’re they’re spaced out enough so you have the time to do it. Sometimes, if something went wrong or you weren’t quick enough, you know, you’d have a pile up. So what would happen when you have a pileup and a lot? That means the people in front of you are not getting your lighters. The float girl, a float girl used to do every job. The float girl used to come and help you out. So they used to say like you’d do a bit and they’d do a bit to get rid of that pile-up.
Simon [00:21:03]: And would they spot that you were falling behind, or someone would instruct them to do it?
Julie [00:21:07]: Yeah, because they can see the line. They can see a gap in the line. And normally, what a float girl would do is sit in when you want to go to the toilet, and they would walk up and down the line just to make sure everything’s all right.
Simon [00:21:20]: So they’re like not supervisors, but well, floating between all the roles that are there.
Julie [00:21:28]: Yeah. On the two lines, that there were other like flame setter and other things. They they didn’t do that. That there was just two lines, and on two lines, there was there were people sat virtually opposite each other, so you had two rows of people virtually opposite, or just a bit of an angle, like that, and so yeah, the float girls used to walk up and down, or sit in for someone to go to the toilet, and then help you with your pileup.
Simon [00:21:53]: So the two lines you were talking about, that doesn’t mean the two conveyor belts next to each other? It means two separate whole. Yeah. So what as that’s part of the production process?
Julie [00:22:12]: Yes. So the two lines do exactly the same thing. It’s just just duplicated. Okay. So instead of having one, so you’ve got one line with people either side doing that. Actually, they sort of do. Ah, they do different jobs. Do they do different jobs, Julie?
Simon [00:22:39]: The people opposite each other?
Julie [00:22:40]: Yeah, yeah. It’s they’re not sort of quite opposite. No, they did the same. They did the same because Frieda and Lil, Freida and Lil would both feed Gwen. Yeah, yeah. They did the same jobs.
Simon [00:22:56]: Okay.
Julie [00:22:57]: So that and that was duplicated on an another line next to them.
Simon [00:23:02]: Oh right, that was literally next to them in the factory?
Julie [00:23:05]: Yeah so literally say, like that the line was, just let’s say the line’s three foot wide, then you’d have walking space, like of five foot, and then you’d have another line of exactly the same, yeah.
Simon [00:23:05]: So the part as it arrived to you on that line, there were, because my understanding and please correct this is wrong, is it basically went from raw materials, the plastics, the metals, and then came out as a lighter at the other end.
Julie [00:23:22]: It did, exactly that. That’s what it did.
Simon [00:23:41]: So the line that you were on was one of the lines that was sort of started off as raw materials. Yeah. Someone was describing about I think maybe it was your sister about buffer buffing. Yeah. The plastic when it came out.
Julie [00:23:54]: That’s the end job.
Simon [00:23:56]: So that was oh that was at the at the sort of end of the line of just before it went off. What was the flow?
Julie [00:24:04]: Right. So the first thing you had, two shells and you had trays in front of you. So the very first job, you had stacks of trays with empty shells. And in front of the person there would be a duster, and there would be what you what you push in now, which is the button that push in on the right hand side. You’d have those, and a pad of silicone. On the bit that you push in..,
Simon [00:24:42]: It’s like hinged on the bottom?
Julie [00:24:43]: Yeah, there’s literally there’s a little there’s a little bit sticking up like a nail, and that nail actually, it sits between the, I think, the flint wheel. So when you press that in, the flint wheel moves, and it has to be lubricated. So you’d pick two lighters up. You would get the two levers that actually activate the lighters. Put the silicone on and put them in. You you have two lighters at a time, and you put them in. Now, then you had two springs: one shorter end and one longer end. And then you’d put, you’d hold the longer end on the right hand side, put that in, and then put the two in because you’re dealing with two lighters. Then you’d get like a tool with it’s a thick handle and a long, a bit like what they call them?
Simon [00:25:51]: A braddle sort of thing.
Julie [00:25:53]: Yeah, yeah. Then you’d push that in. You you’d go well, push it down on one lighter and the other lighter, and that gives the spring the the … I don’t know what you call that.
Simon [00:26:06]: I don’t know. Yeah, button striker. Yeah. Whatever it is?
Julie [00:26:09]: The the thing that you press in to set the lighter off and then you’d put them on the line.
Simon [00:26:14]: Right.
Julie [00:26:16]: And that they would that would be their job all day, just doing that.
Simon [00:26:20]: Yeah.
Julie [00:26:21]: And you could literally do it with your eyes shut. Literally, you could. But you know, you have someone else to talk to. You know, and then from that job, it went on to I don’t know what it was called. But literally on the valve, you have to have a little metal horseshoe. So when you press the button that’s just gone in, that lifts the valve.
Simon [00:26:54]: To let the gas out?
Julie [00:26:55]: Yeah. So you had two columns in front of you, and you had a long instrument like with the horseshoe, and you used to have to push it in like until you got horseshoe on there, and then again you push that duster in front of you, and you’ve got like two little, they’re like wings, they look like wings. Okay. And there’s you have to put them up a certain way. You have to do it. It was a certain way to do it, and then you had to put that on, drop that in with the other one as well. So you do that, drop that in, and then you’d get the horseshoe, and you’d push it in until it clipped, because on that valve there is a little nook, and you have to fit that through there, and you’d do that one.
Simon [00:27:57]: So what were the wings, angel wings, doing? They were something to control the flow, were they?
Julie [00:28:06]: So I’ll tell you what that is. So you you press that, and I’ll try and explain to you. Right. So you can see, you can see, it’s so when you press the lever to strike it, that wing lifts up, and it lifts the flint wheel as well.
Simon [00:28:36]: Oh yeah, yeah.
Julie [00:28:36]: Yep. So, in order to keep that that wing down. You have to put that clip across, so it doesn’t come off. Right, and that actually also when you push that in, it lets the gas out.
Simon [00:28:52]: Yeah, right. Okay, I think that one’s gas. Yeah, yeah, right. So that is allowing the gas to come out of the tank at the bottom, right. Well, and I’m also doing the striking. Well, the tank is at the bottom, and then but then the thing you’re talking about is at the top right.
Julie [00:29:09]: Yeah. So that wouldn’t work without the flint wheel.
Simon [00:29:13]: Yeah. Okay.
Julie [00:29:14]: Which is the next job.
Simon [00:29:21]: Okay. So that that that part was people. So they’ve take they’ve got the plastic case, they’ve had the the button fitted to it, the striker or whatever it is, the starter, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. And then there’s the wings that you’re talking about. So someone must have fitted the Gas, what’s it first, mustn’t they?
Julie [00:29:44]: These are already full of gas.
Simon [00:29:47]: Oh, these lighters arrive with gases?
Julie [00:29:51]: No. Hold on. Bear with me. Honestly, I’m going back 50 years.
Simon [00:29:57]: Yeah, no. Understood.
Julie [00:30:00]: Right, no, no, they’re not filled with gas.
Simon [00:30:03]: Okay.
Julie [00:30:03]: But why aren’t they filled with gas if they go on to buffer? Because we used to buff them. Gillian wasn’t on the line. I think Gillian’s buffer was different on flame setting.
Simon [00:30:14]: Okay.
Julie [00:30:15]: So that they are flame set before they come to us.
Simon [00:30:19]: Right.
Julie [00:30:20]: Definitely.
Simon [00:30:20]: So that means the valve has gone in, that’s connected to the gas tank underneath.
Julie [00:30:26]: Yeah. That’s there already. So what on flame set it it is? Yeah. They put that valve in because they have to set the flame to the right height. They have to do that first.
Simon [00:30:40]: Yeah.
Julie [00:30:41]: And you see, I’ve took the flint out now. Yeah, there’s that white wheel in.
Simon [00:30:44]: Yeah, right. Okay, what happens when you push that then? That rotates it. Yeah. Okay, that really makes it clear, doesn’t it? Yeah. Okay.
Julie [00:30:53]: And if you see that flint there, that’s red. That’s why that’s red there. To indicate that that’s where that should go.
Simon [00:31:02]: So on the plastic casing, there’s a red dot, and that matches up with the one on the flint wheel?.
Julie [00:31:06]: That’s another job that you have to put in.
Simon [00:31:08]: Okay. So what have we got? We’ve got the tank. We’ve got the shell. We’ve got the gas control on there, the wings, and then what?
Julie [00:31:24]: Right, and then that white wheel. I’m trying to think where that white wheel comes in. Sorry.
Simon [00:31:33]: Okay.
Julie [00:31:38]: And then after that, I think I’ll have to think about that white wheel.
Simon [00:31:43]: Okay.
Julie [00:31:43]: And then after that’s done, it it come to the they called it spinning, putting the plate on.
Simon [00:31:52]: Right. Because that was one of the unique things about the lighter. Was it had a top that rotated, the metal top rotated.
Julie [00:31:59]: Yeah.
Simon [00:32:01]: To allow you to get to the flints?
Julie [00:32:02]: Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. So the next job, and this was the one that I started on. So you had what they call a top plate. That’s the very top shiny bit. You had a plate underneath there. That was done in diecast. They make that in diecast. And you’ve got a screw there. . So the job was when they came along the two lighters, them. You’d have a duster of the top plate, the shiny bit, the plate underneath, and the screws.
Simon [00:32:42]: What does the duster bit mean then? Is it a tray?
Julie [00:32:44]: No it’s a real duster, a proper duster.
Simon [00:32:46]: Oh, it is right. Okay, okay.
Julie [00:32:50]: So, so they don’t move, you know, so they don’t roll off.
Simon [00:32:54]: Yeah.
Julie [00:32:55]: And what you have, and ball bearings. So on there, you have the top plate, the bottom plate, a screw, a spring, and a ball bearing.
Simon [00:33:03]: Right, right.
Julie [00:33:05]: And what you should do is you take the two lighters off with one lighter. This is how I was taught. You’d pick up a spring and on the bottom left-hand side, there’s a hole under that top plate. You’d put a spring, then you’d pick up a ball bearing, and you’d balance that ball bearing on, and that ball bearing and air balls when you put the bottom plate on to swivel. So then you’d put the bottom plate on, and then you would put a screw there, screw it down,
Simon [00:33:48]: So you don’t get out screwdrivers. A machine you pull down?
Julie [00:33:51]: The machine screws it down. So there’s a special thing that it fits one lighter in. Okay. So you just put that down, and then pull it down, pick up the top plate like that, open it up, put it on the line. So you do that twice, right? So that was my first job.
Simon [00:34:10]: That’s fiddly, isn’t it?
Julie [00:34:12]: Yes, but that was my first job, and I thought because you could do it, you know, and we could smoke as well, unbelievable. But actually, my Mum didn’t know I smoked when she worked there, so it was a bit tricky for me.
Simon [00:34:26]: How did you get round that then? Just not smoke at work?
Julie [00:34:29]: Well, smoke in canteen, you know. I’ll tell you, canteen was brilliant. Anyway, so what I did because you know I thought, oh, let’s have another way of doing this, so I would pick up the lighters, put the ball bearing on with this, spring on with this hand, and ball bearing with that. So I would go spring, ball bearing. I’d go underplate screw, underplate screw, screw it down. Pick up the top and do it that way.
Simon [00:35:03]: So when? How did the top fit on? Because it sort of looks like the screw fits into the top, but it maybe it doesn’t.
Julie [00:35:09]: It does.
Simon [00:35:11]: Okay.
Julie [00:35:11]: Oh, so if you undid the screw on the bottom, that top plate had come off.
Simon [00:35:17]: Okay, right. Okay.
Julie [00:35:18]: Hold on. You’re right. Hold on. Okay. I’m going mad here.
Simon [00:35:22]: No, that’s that makes sense.
Julie [00:35:23]: You’d do that. Yeah, and then you do that.
Simon [00:35:29]: So of the bits that are there, you said the bottom, the die cast bit, because that is a different finish. The top is super shiny and chrome and all that sort of stuff. The lower bit is a darker metal, isn’t it?
Julie [00:35:41]: Yeah.
Simon [00:35:41]: Rougher.
Julie [00:35:42]: Yeah.
Simon [00:35:43]: Because it doesn’t need to be fancy, because it’s hidden away. Yeah. So that’s that bit was they melted the metal down and die cast that.
Julie [00:35:52]: I am pretty sure. I am pretty sure they die cast that because that was that place was on the way to the canteen.
Simon [00:36:00]: Right.
Julie [00:36:01]: And they used to just make it all.
Simon [00:36:03]: And did they make the top shiny bit as well? Do you think?
Julie [00:36:06]: No, I don’t think they did.
Simon [00:36:08]: Because probably chroming is a special..
Julie [00:36:10]: Yeah, I don’t think they did.
Simon [00:36:11]: Yeah. Okay.
Julie [00:36:13]: And they didn’t make the shells, obviously either.
Simon [00:36:16]: The shells came arrived, did they? Yeah. Oh, I thought they might have been made there, right? Okay. So rough plastic turned up as a shell shape.
Julie [00:36:25]: Yeah.
Simon [00:36:26]: Okay. Yeah.
Julie [00:36:27]: And yeah, yeah.
Simon [00:36:29]: Okay. So then, so what was your innovation? Was look, hang on this. I’ve got two hands here. Yeah. Why don’t I use both of them? Speed up the process. Yeah.
Julie [00:36:39]: That’s exactly it. Yeah.
Simon [00:36:41]: And what was the reaction to your innovation?
Julie [00:36:43]: So we used to have what we called time and motion men. What was his name? Haig. And yeah. So what happened, they they used to look at how many lighters you were doing, and at the time, you had what we called offline, so they were also people not working on the line but doing a lighter from start to finish.
Simon [00:37:10]: Why would they be doing that then?
Julie [00:37:12]: Because they could do it quicker.
Simon [00:37:16]: So a step towards them becoming a float girl. So they need the process.
Julie [00:37:24]: Probably actually. Yeah, I think so.
Simon [00:37:31]: So they would, they’ve been on the line. They’ve mastered each of the processes, and then could build the whole lighter themselves.
Julie [00:37:38]: So what would happen, I actually think I probably set that off myself. To be honest, the offline.
Simon [00:37:47]: Yeah?
Julie [00:37:48]: Yeah, because I know other people used to do offline on other things, like Pura Filters and flame setting. Well, flame setting was offline. What I used to do is, I used to ask if I could sit on somebody else’s job and watch. And that’s what I did, Claire didn’t teach me that. But the training school was really busy.
Simon [00:38:17]: They had a training school?
Julie [00:38:18]: Well, that’s what it was.
Simon [00:38:20]: I didn’t know
Julie [00:38:21]: That the training school was just offset off the line.
Simon [00:38:24]: Like a mini version of the line, exactly without the pressure?
Julie [00:38:26]: Exactly, without the line, yeah. But you were only taught one job, yeah, and I was taught that top plate thing, but obviously float girls need to know all the jobs, and there were float girls, and I wanted to be a float girl, so I got to know all the jobs. And I think because I used my other hand because I did it quicker, I went offline.
Simon [00:38:55]: Okay.
Julie [00:38:57]: And the time and motion was sort of saying, hold on a minute, because they used to look if you had plenty of time, but you know, things went wrong, equipment went wrong, and Peter Urry, he used to be the engineer there that used to set things, and he always says it’s not, it’s the user always blames its tools, and sometimes you know, the line wouldn’t stop, the line would carry on. But if you had something wrong with your machine, they’d have to repair it. So I went offline, basically. Yeah.
Simon [00:39:37]: And so you mastered from beginning to end the construction of the lighter.
Julie [00:39:40]: I was a float girl actually. I then became a float girl to sit in for everybody, and then went on offline.
Simon [00:39:49]: I guess that the one pro of being a float girl is you get to mix with everyone socially. Yeah, because you’re taking part. You know, whichever part in the line, you’re having different conversations…
Julie [00:39:59]: You did, but you know you could have a conversation with two, three people up the line. Seriously, we just weren’t friends with that one person. You know, you’d always the the line girl. It was amazing. We all stopped to have tea breaks at the same time, and I think my favourite one was 20 to 10. I think it was 20. You had 10 minutes. I think you had 20 to 10, 10 to 10, and we always used to stop, go to the canteen, sausage rolls, cups of tea. You know, we used to clock in as well. We used to have to clock in, clock out.
Simon [00:40:35]: For tea time for tea breaks, or for beginning of the day?
Julie [00:40:39]: Beginning of the day, out and after, yeah. But we were all friends. It was not just because I was the float girl. We were all friends. You know, we all knew one another. I’m trying to think back.
Simon [00:40:56]: So when you were carrying out conversation with someone who’s I don’t know six seats down, five seats down. You just turn the volume up, do you?
Julie [00:41:03]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You do, and it wasn’t a noisy factory, not particularly. It’s not as noisy as you’d think it would be, but yeah, yeah, it was fine. And we used to write messages. You know, if you had a pen and paper, yeah, and then put a message on, you know, like get your finger out or something, just for a joke, you know.
Simon [00:41:25]: Right. It’s like a slow version of email.
Julie [00:41:28]: Yes. Yeah. Pigeon post. Yeah, the camaraderie was brilliant.
Simon [00:41:35]: I mean, that’s the thing that really has come across because I’m sure we’ve spoken about it before that the productivity of the Newport one was the best in the whole of the Ronson Group. The way it was quoted in it was a little bit confusing the way because when it came to the point of it closing down, the the then MP spoke about it in the House of Commons, and the way he explained it was I think it was two and a half times for every one two and a half lighters for every one. No, it’s more than that. Three lighters. No. I can’t remember those numbers unfortunately at the moment. But what it averaged out to was about that the Newport Isle of Wight branch made about 2.3 lighters for every one lighter made in every other of the Ronson factories. I mean that’s substantial. It’s more than double, isn’t it? It’s nearly two and a half times. So there was special happening there.
Julie [00:42:32]: We used to have the, how many lighters you’d made that week, and you know people were really interested in it. You know, see if we can push it more, and we think, where are all these lighters going? Where are they going?
Simon [00:42:46]: Yeah.
Julie [00:42:47]: And when you think, and that line wasn’t it wasn’t fast, but it wasn’t slow. You know, yeah, you really had to sort of move it. Yeah, and they also had actually, which I think’s good, and they should do it now. Is it called like an ideas box?
Simon [00:43:09]: Oh yeah.
Julie [00:43:09]: So if you had any ideas of how to improve things, or they used to put it in a box, and if yours were were drawn, you got like 100 pound.
Simon [00:43:22]: Wow. Okay.
Julie [00:43:22]: It was really good.
Simon [00:43:23]: Yeah, that was serious money then.
Julie [00:43:25]: Yeah, it was.
Simon [00:43:26]: If you were saving a tenner a week, I mean, that’s 10 weeks worth of saving, isn’t it? Yeah.
Julie [00:43:30]: It was amazing. They had to implement it, obviously. You know, you couldn’t just have an idea and they say sorry. Yeah. So it was implemented. Yeah. So yeah, amazing.
Simon [00:43:39]: So your ambidextrous spring and ball bearing. Yeah. Did they then make the other people do the same, or they just want? She’s got unique skill. No.
Julie [00:43:52]: They couldn’t make them do it. So that’s why I became training instructor, ‘cos when Claire left. They asked me if I would be that, and I said happy to, but I’m going to teach everybody how I work and all the jobs. So they were on training for six weeks.
Simon [00:44:15]: Okay.
Julie [00:44:16]: So I made sure… so what would happen, you train somebody, you bring them in, start on the first job when they’ve mastered that, put them on the line, just to see they keep up with, and then you do the next job, the next job, the next job. But I would tell them, show them, my way to do it. And it worked.
Simon [00:44:38]: And everyone got used to using both hands?
Julie [00:44:40]: Some couldn’t, but if they couldn’t, as far you can’t make someone do something if they can’t use the left hand, you can’t. But if for those that would try, yeah, I weren’t gonna do that. I’m gonna say if you can do it this way, do it that way.
Simon [00:44:56]: Right, right.
Julie [00:44:57]: And some did.
Simon [00:44:58]: So you saying they’ve got to be through training for six weeks. I mean, I guess they … it’s not like they weren’t in the eyes of the business being productive, because they were even though they were on the training, they were still making lighters. But it just wasn’t at the pace of the correct the main line. Okay.
Julie [00:45:16]: Yeah. But you used to put them on there, you know, on the line just to get used to that, and then come off once they’ve mastered one job.
Simon [00:45:23]: Yeah.
Julie [00:45:24]: But yeah, they would make then the lighters, which is like doing it offline.
Simon [00:45:28]: Yeah.
Julie [00:45:28]: But making the lighters at a slower pace.
Simon [00:45:31]: Right. Okay. So that when you sort of made the decision, right, they’re trained to a sufficient point, and then you decided that right, you go on, I don’t know shell or whatever it is, and that you then monitored their performance and said right okay you now good enough on that move on.
Julie [00:45:50]: So I would do that. I would monitor the progress while they’re on the training school. If I thought that they could be off training school before six weeks. They would go off. Yeah.
Simon [00:45:50]: And how do people? I mean, I guess the way you come across is is friendly, and that’s the … It seems important to engender that within the working environment. Yeah. Because otherwise, I mean, why would you do it in any other way, perhaps? So people enjoyed the school, and then?
Julie [00:46:29]: Oh well, I think so. I’d like to think they did.
Simon [00:46:29]: Yeah, yeah. So what age were you doing the schooling?
Julie [00:46:31]: Then? So I would say 18.
Simon [00:46:41]: And there was there’s no, people were like, ‘who do you think you are at 18 telling me what to do?’ Okay that’s good that’s goo. So then, you seem to have trained up more people to then be whole process. Let’s pick pick a phrase: whole process people, lighters from beginning to end. Did that mean that there were more float girls, or did it just mean that people were more adaptable in the way that they could be staffing the line?
Julie [00:47:17]: More adaptable staffing the line, sickness and things. Yeah. So someone was going off sick or on holiday, and nobody could do that job. You know, that they might be slow. So actually, to enable people, and people left, or people went to different departments, like leather covers. You know, someone say, “Oh, I’d like to do leather covers.” I taught leather covers as well. So yeah, it was about moving round. I think if you stay on one job for too long, people would get bored and want to leave.
Simon [00:47:48]: Right, even if the chat was great during the day?
Julie [00:47:52]: Yeah, I think, an example. I’m going to give you an example. So I trained a girl called Nella, and we became really good friends. Really good friends, and she was on the line, and she left the Island. She had a baby, so she left and moved off the Island. And 50 years on, it must be 48 years I’ve known her. 48 years on, we’re still friends. Phone each other twice a week, and I’m going up to see her next week.
Simon [00:48:32]: Wow, wow, wow, wow. That’s I mean that thing of making friendships for life is quite special at work.
Julie [00:48:39]: Yeah.
Simon [00:48:39]: I don’t know if that happens these days.
Julie [00:48:42]: No, I think you move on. But to be fair, see, I wasn’t at Ronson’s for very long. I left. When did I leave? About 20.
Simon [00:48:55]: Okay.
Julie [00:48:55]: I think I was. I think I can’t remember. 20-21. And there are some people, like well, Nella, you know, we just stayed in touch. There was just something there, and there’s a couple of more people that I stay in contact with now, but not onto the extent of like Nella, you know. We’d, I remember turning up for the council, for example, and like my third day there, someone said, “You don’t remember me, do you?” And I went, “No, I don’t. Sorry.”
Simon [00:49:29]: Or am I in trouble?
Julie [00:49:30]: And when she said, I went, “oh my goodness,” because you know, I think when you’re younger, and I just got married, and I had a baby at 22, you know, but yeah, you remember them, and I’m still friendly now.
Simon [00:49:44]: So that was the reason to leave, was it? Because you’re expecting.
Julie [00:49:47]: No. So, what I did in the evening, I did Pippa Dee, which was a club. It’s a bit like Tupperware, but in clothes. So Pippa Dee was people going to your house, and you get a group of ladies, and you sell the clothes and whatever, underwear, to them. And so I, when I was a training instructor, I thought I fancy doing something else, so as an addition, so I did Pippa Dee in the evenings, and I was really successful, really good. I won lots of prizes, lots of money, a lot more than I was earning at Ronson’s, a lot more. And then they were looking for a manager, and I thought, oh, you know, I could manage this, I could do this, and you get a commission off whatever your girls earn, and you give them incentives to sell more. So I left Ronson’s to be a manager of Pippa Dee. So I sold during the day and the evening, and I did more in the evening than daytime. So then I got a job at Padmore House, and Padmore House is at Whippingham. And it was a hotel, it’s up for sale actually, and it was a hotel, and they wanted sort of like some sort of receptionist, silver service waitress, you know. So I did that. Then at 22, I became pregnant.
Simon [00:51:37]: Okay.
Julie [00:51:39]: So I did packed up Pippa Dee and just did Padmore House until my daughter was born. And then I didn’t work at all until I got divorced when she was four, just coming up for five. Yeah, so that was an eye opener.
Simon [00:52:03]: Which bit?
Julie [00:52:05]: Not knowing what to do, being divorced, and because we knew that I’d be at home with a child until it went to school, and she did get to school obviously. But yeah, when I got divorced I thought I’ve got to get a job now because I’ve got to keep a roof over my head. So yeah.
Simon [00:52:26]: So was Ronson’s wasn’t around at that point. You couldn’t go back?
Julie [00:52:30]: No. No. Ronson’s had, no Ronsons had gone. And you know, I think it’s like with any job, I wouldn’t go back because you can’t recreate, can you? You know that was the time that was good for me at 16. It was brilliant, you know, and one of the best jobs I’ve had, really, for that camaraderie. I think, yeah, it was good.
Simon [00:52:51]: That does seem to be a universal thing. People saying, if I could go back, I would. You know, I’d love the time there. Fantastic people. What was it that made it like that? What what was the environment? What was it about the place that made it so friendly?
Julie [00:53:15]: Oh, for me, I think, I don’t know, when because if you’re young, you have, and it’s your first job, and you’re not in the routine, though factory is routine, of school, you know, and sort of like being told what to do, and you know all this. For me, I think it was a sense of like freedom, meeting different people that you wouldn’t have ordinarily met, you know, because you know my mate Nella, she’s a midwife and a foster carer now, so she’s come, you know, way up. Gill, who used to be there, she’s social worker like me, you know. So there’s. I just think for me it was just the fun of being young, having money. Actually, having the money, being able to save up, being able to save up for a house, being so young. Yeah.
Simon [00:54:18]: So was it? Some people have spoken about that they did the job and then got the money and then went and bought outfits and then just went out for the weekend.
Julie [00:54:27]: Yeah.
Simon [00:54:29]: But you sound like maybe it was different because you were saving?
Julie [00:54:33]: Right. So yeah, I never went out in an evening with them ..
Simon [00:54:40]: No no socialising outside work.
Julie [00:54:43]: No.
Simon [00:54:44]: Right, we’re back. Where do we get to? Oh, I know what. When we were just having that tea break, we’re talking about the lighters, so maybe we could talk about. I was saying I’ve seen some with a thicker band at the bottom. Yeah, how were they? Were they still made at the Newport place?
Julie [00:55:03]: Yes, so the they used to be different makes. It was still the Comet, but they used to have a bigger sheath at the bottom, and that is the silver band at the bottom. Okay, and I think it was there were more squarer. It was squarer and thicker, because they were really hard to get on.
Simon [00:55:27]: So that was the the shape was different to the the Comet slightly. Was it?
Julie [00:55:33]: Yeah. I think it was squarer. Because the sheaf how you put that on, on the duster. From you’d have you’d have this silver band. You’d pick the lighters up, and sometimes were really easy. You just put it in at an angle, went down like that, and the sheath. Yeah, and the sheet would go on, and then you’d open. You got a machine in front of you. You put the lighter in that way. You pulled it back, and what that did, it makes the dimple.
Simon [00:56:05]: Okay.
Julie [00:56:06]: And that secures it on there. So the dimple, the machine that makes the dimple, secured it. Now, when we were adding the thicker sheaths, it was harder to get on. So because they were deeper, the depth. When you went like that, you couldn’t always get it on. So you’d have to sort of get one part on and then knock it. Like that to get it on.
Simon [00:56:36]: Right.
Julie [00:56:36]: But sometimes because they were sharp, it’d hurt your fingers. Because if you were trying to go on like that, it’d hurt your fingers.
Simon [00:56:43]: Because the metal band would cut into the fore fingers.
Julie [00:56:46]: Yeah, and if you had the thicker sheath, so we literally, it wouldn’t just happen. You had to change the machinery for the dimple, so the the machinery would stay the same, but the engineer would come along and adjust the setting inside for that dimple.
Simon [00:57:07]: To put it in the middle of the band. The middle of the height of the band. Now I’ll have a look around for those other models. I have seen them, and I just figured they were made other places, but I didn’t realise they might have been. Okay, and so this one here is is one of the leather bound ones. Yeah, I can’t. Oh, there is a join. I was going to say I can’t see a join. Yeah, how did how did they get, or was that a sort of a later modification, or were they always made with a?
Julie [00:57:36]: To my knowledge, they came later, and before the leather was screen printing, so you had I didn’t do screen printing, but literally you would, these would be made to order, and I don’t know who designed it, but we would have the screen print of that design, and we might have an order, let’s say, to do 1000 or whatever that would be, and so people would do the screen printing, and then I believe the leather came later.
Simon [00:58:12]: So the screen printing would be like a sponsored company’s logo or something.
Julie [00:58:18]: Yeah.
Simon [00:58:18]: How would that get applied?
Julie [00:58:20]: I didn’t do screen printing, but it would be done. I’m assuming this now because I think the lighters get chucked about a bit. You know, when you pick them up and you put them in the trays, I would imagine they were done after, but I couldn’t…
Simon [00:58:39]: Because it’s a curved surface, isn’t it? So it must be quite hard to get the screen print onto it. Okay.
Julie [00:58:46]: I don’t know if Gill ever did screen print, and I’m not sure.
Simon [00:58:46]: I mean, the sponsored logos have come up, but not the process. So with the leather one, it looks like where the striker is, I can see a slight black line there, that just came as a separate, I guess effectively a skin.
Julie [00:59:06]: Yes, skin, already cut out. Already cut out. And what you’d do, you’d put the glue on the lighter, and you’d make sure that that was, and then you’d fit it round and get um. It’s like a stretcher thing. It’s like a round tool that you would just fit on around that to..
Simon [00:59:29]: Right, smooth it all around.
Julie [00:59:31]: And then glue it. But you glued it the lighter first all over. Yeah.
Simon [00:59:37]: I mean it’s a testament to the glue that it’s still on there, absolutely. What will you get on for 50 years later? Absolutely. It still that isn’t doesn’t look like it’s coming off for the next 100 years. Never mind anything else. So interestingly, there’s a sort of a scoring on the leather around. So you’ve got to be quite precise. With how you’re putting the thing on there as well
Julie [01:00:03]: And they did different colours. They did brown, blue, black, and again, I think they were made to order, really.
Simon [01:00:11]: Right? Okay.
Julie [01:00:11]: More than the general on the line things.
Simon [01:00:15]: So this was the sort of luxury. The other one was the luxury end of the market. Okay. Yeah. Now I have seen metal ones. Did they ever get done at the Newport? This is I’m looking on eBay and there’s some on there.
Julie [01:00:28]: I’ve never seen them. Okay. No, might’ve been after. No, I’ve never seen them.
Simon [01:00:33]: Okay.
Julie [01:00:34]: No, mind you, we used to make hair dryers too, but I didn’t see that.
Simon [01:00:37]: Right. Well tell them about the other stuff they did there.
Julie [01:00:40]: Well, the pura filters and purifier not done on the line, they were done separately, and the pura filters were for the filters in cigarette holders. So you didn’t see it because they would be in the cigarette holder, and you would. This was upstairs in the factory.
Simon [01:01:04]: Ah, right, upstairs.
Julie [01:01:05]: And you had a wooden block. Let’s say, because I can’t remember, 12 holes, 12 little holes, and you’d, in a wooden block, and then you’d put the plastic tubes in the holes, and then you got these crystals, and the crystals you would just get a scoop, and you’d make sure that they were all filled up, bang them down on the block to make sure there was no gaps, and fit it with a red lid.
Simon [01:01:35]: Right. Okay. And that’s, I mean, that’s I guess a machine would do that kind of thing these days. Yeah, I would imagine you press a button and it all happens.
Julie [01:01:44]: But no one smokes now, though, do they?
Simon [01:01:45]: No, that’s true as well.
Julie [01:01:47]: Never see anyone with that.
Simon [01:01:48]: Yeah. I mean, and talking of that, did I guess you probably left too early? Was your mum still there when you left?
Julie [01:01:58]: Yeah.
Simon [01:02:00]: So how? Because then, I think it was. There was from the research I’ve done, and this isn’t by any means, you know, official reference. Is 81 it closed, and then it sort of got bought up again and opened up again, closed down, open up again, and then finally closed down at about 84. So your Mum carried on there after you left, perhaps?
Julie [01:02:30]: 82. Let me have a think. So my daughter was born in 82. At one point, and I can’t remember when. I don’t know I don’t know if she left I don’t actually ever remember her being made redundant but I remember Gill being made redundant
Simon [01:02:48]: Right
Julie [01:02:49]: But she then became manager of the dry cleaners in Newport.
Simon [01:02:54]: Okay
Julie [01:02:55]: Bollum it was called. So she was manager and I’m just trying to think if she was manager when my daughter was born, and I think she probably was. Actually, I don’t think she worked at Ronson’s then.
Simon [01:03:11]: So those, I mean, those were more common in those days. The dry cleaners, less so these days. What about her role then? What was her role? As she was supervisor?
Julie [01:03:22]: Yeah, and she had her own little office. She did. I don’t know. Was anyone any problems, leave, holidays, that type of thing? But not an admin role. It was more than an admin role. Just made sure everything run smoothly, like they had enough quantities of lighter, the shells. You know, make sure we meet our targets, that type of thing. Yeah.
Simon [01:03:53]: And you mentioned time and motion person.
Julie [01:03:56]: Yeah.
Simon [01:03:57]: They would be, I don’t know, sort of a figure that floated around. Were they all were they there all the time?
Julie [01:04:02]: No. But you knew to go slow when they were.
Simon [01:04:06]: Oh, really?
Julie [01:04:06]: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Simon [01:04:07]: Why was everyone going slower?
Julie [01:04:09]: Dougie Haig’s here, let’s go slower. So they wouldn’t have to speed up the line because that’s what they did.
Simon [01:04:16]: Okay.
Julie [01:04:16]: You know, not everybody, but you know that if they thought, oh look, you know, they’re they’re chatting too much, so you just keep quiet, you know, or they’re doing, you know, easy peasy. Let’s speed it up. And they used to do that. They used to speed the line up.
Simon [01:04:35]: Okay.
Julie [01:04:35]: Yeah.
Simon [01:04:36]: Someone did say that they, time and motion people said, “Right, okay, the gap between lighters has to get smaller. So I guess that’s effectively speeding the lineup, isn’t it?
Julie [01:04:36]: Yeah, and they used to have dots on where where you should put down, but eventually you know because when it when it comes up, you know where to put the lighters down. You know, but there were dots, and no, the line did go quicker.
Simon [01:05:04]: Oh, the line did go quicker?
Julie [01:05:08]: Yeah, it did. And when I was on the offline, when I worked offline, you could get bonuses, and obviously, depending how many lighters you do, the more bonus you get, and that’s when I was I would they watched me for an hour, doing my lighters.
Simon [01:05:28]: And were you being fast or slow at that point?
Julie [01:05:31]: Comfortable. I wasn’t going slow. I was doing what I’d normally do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But my bonus used to be good.
Simon [01:05:40]: Oh, that’s good. And you mentioned earlier the idea of sort of thinking, ‘hang on a sec, we’re banging, I don’t know how many of these out an hour’.
Julie [01:05:49]: Yeah.
Simon [01:05:50]: Hundreds or 1000s a day. Yeah. And what about that thought of where they were all going?
Julie [01:05:56]: Not a clue. Honestly, I mean, but at the time, a lot of people were smoking, and any smoker at Ronson’s would have a Ronson’s lighter. You know, you didn’t have Bics in them days. You know, not not when I was 16, going on 18. So everyone had a lighter, and the majority of people smoked.
Simon [01:06:16]: Yeah.
Julie [01:06:17]: You know, they on the line they used to smoke.
Simon [01:06:20]: Yeah, I mean the way I’ve been thinking about these lighters is one, it’s a good design, interesting design. Obviously, they did things that other people weren’t doing, as far as I could tell at the beginning. But the really smart thing is the gas, because you sell people a lighter, and then every month or whatever, they’re coming back to you for the gas refills as well.
Julie [01:06:44]: Yeah.
Simon [01:06:45]: So it’s constant income.
Julie [01:06:46]: Yeah. Yeah.
Simon [01:06:48]: It’s a smart business until someone comes along and makes disposable ones.
Julie [01:06:53]: Yeah. And you know, actually, I don’t think they were all that expensive. But yeah, because yeah, why throw it away if it was still good and it’s a good product, and then yeah, you’d buy the gas, fill your gas up. And then obviously when that stopped for whatever reason, it might be in some cases that oh I have no flints oh let me let’s buy another lighter instead of buying a lot of flints let’s buy another lighter.
Simon [01:07:19]: Right yeah and if they’re 99p versus five quid or whatever, yeah, yeah, okay. Was your mum’s name? Because someone’s mentioned a Hazel Cocker.
Julie [01:07:39]: That’s it.
Simon [01:07:40]: Is her? Is it? Okay, okay, that’s it. So maybe this is your sister saying that she left six to eight months before the end.
Julie [01:07:54]: Oh, did she?
Simon [01:07:55]: Yeah. Okay.
Julie [01:07:56]: Which actually would be right because if my daughter was born in 82.
Simon [01:08:00]: Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it. And she was doing the dry cleaning
Julie [01:08:05]: And then and then after Ronson, she went to dry cleaners.
Simon [01:08:10]: Right, yeah. So I’ve heard the phrase piece work before, but I’ve never really understood it meant how many pieces you need to make. I just I didn’t know whether it was how the spelling of it, whether it was as in not aggressive, you know, P E A C E or
Julie [01:08:32]: P I E. So the piece work is offline.
Simon [01:08:36]: Was it?
Julie [01:08:36]: Yeah.
Simon [01:08:38]: Okay. So that was for the turbo creators, the turbo makers.
Julie [01:08:43]: So, so when you work, when I worked offline to make the lighters, that was the piecework.
Simon [01:08:53]: Okay, okay. So that’s right, and that’s where you got your big bonuses, rather than it just being fed through, okay, yeah.
Julie [01:09:03]: You’d get you’d get the the normal rate of work, and you’d have to do over an X amount of lighters before you got your bonus.
Simon [01:09:12]: Right.
Julie [01:09:12]: Yeah, but it was there to be had.
Simon [01:09:14]: So it’s it’s basically if you’re making more than you would on the production line, on the line, then you got more money. Okay. You said your mum was a steward?
Julie [01:09:27]: Yeah, shop steward.
Simon [01:09:27]: Shop steward. Yeah,
Julie [01:09:29]: Yeah, she was.
Simon [01:09:29]: So that was before she was elevated to manager.
Julie [01:09:32]: It’d have to be because I don’t think you’d have a shop steward and a manager. I’m sure you wouldn’t have that.
Simon [01:09:39]: What was you said? She had a whistle. What’s that about? Yeah,
Julie [01:09:41]: Yeah, because she was like the union. Yeah, so a whistle everybody out if something.
Simon [01:09:47]: Oh, really?
Julie [01:09:47]: Yeah, if something wasn’t, if something wasn’t right regarding the union or something, you know, because working conditions or what have you, she would blow that whistle. She used to practice it at home, when she became the shop steward, and she said, “Everybody out.” Yeah, before I joined. But yes, yeah.
Simon [01:10:08]: Right. So you all had to leave the house at that point.
Julie [01:10:10]: Yeah. Yeah.
Simon [01:10:15]: That’s mad, isn’t it? Yeah. Having a whistle. Yeah. And that was just hanging around her neck, ready for.
Julie [01:10:20]: Well, she she had it if she needed it, right? Yeah, but she yeah, and saying about you know ‘everybody out’ sort of thing. I think she was instrumental. She was manager then. I joined in that really hot summer, 76. And it was hot in that factory, and they used to bring ice creams, ice lollies round for us.
Simon [01:10:46]: Did they? That’s nice.
Julie [01:10:47]: So yeah, and I don’t think they had to do that, but it might have been everybody out because it’s too hot if you don’t. You know, so yeah.
Simon [01:10:55]: Well, I get. I mean, you’ve got to look after people, haven’t you? You can’t have them sweating away
Julie [01:11:01]: Well, you have, but some people don’t.
Simon [01:11:03]: Right. So do you remember or have you heard about that there was a strike? We’ve got photos from the County Press of a strike happening. I think that was around maybe 80-81, ish.
Julie [01:11:22]: No, I wasn’t there then. I couldn’t have been there.
Simon [01:11:24]: Okay. And one thing that seemed an interesting area was because there was lots of photos of people at the Christmas dos.
Julie [01:11:37]: Yeah.
Simon [01:11:37]: Actually, on the line. I guess that probably the lines weren’t running. Yeah, what were they like?
Julie [01:11:46]: Do you know? I can’t remember.
Simon [01:11:47]: They were that good.
Julie [01:11:48]: Sorry. Yeah, they must have been. Sorry, I can’t remember. I really can’t.
Simon [01:11:52]: Yeah. They look jolly affairs. I mean, everyone’s there.
Julie [01:11:57]: And and we were. We were jolly. Yeah, yeah. I’m trying to. I’m trying to remember, but I’m not going to make it up for the making up’s sake. You know.
Simon [01:12:11]: And your sister Gillian was on the carnival float.
Julie [01:12:15]: She was. She come runner up.
Simon [01:12:18]: Was she excited about it?
Julie [01:12:19]: She were robbed. She were robbed. Have you seen the pictures?
Simon [01:12:23]: Yeah.
Julie [01:12:24]: She were robbed. Yes, she was. Yeah, it was. It was good that.
Simon [01:12:31]: She was excited about it.
Julie [01:12:32]: Yeah yeah, she was. Edwina, Edwina Chadwick, who again has sadly passed. She came first.
Simon [01:12:39]: Right.
Julie [01:12:39]: She worked …
Simon [01:12:40]: What’s that different float?
Julie [01:12:42]: It was like the carnival float, right? And Edwina, and I’m not sure if it was just the Ronson’s lot or it was a Newport thing. But Edwina used to work, I think, in the offices, and she came first. She was the carnival queen.
Simon [01:12:57]: Within Ronson?
Julie [01:12:59]: I think it was.
Simon [01:13:00]: Okay. Of course. Yeah. So, is there anything we haven’t spoken about? Do you think we should speak about?
Julie [01:13:20]: Can’t think. I can’t think of anything.
Simon [01:13:30]: Okay.
Julie [01:13:32]: Oh, I will actually. Okay. I have got something to say. I do. So when Val used to be a float girl as well, my sister, and when I got engaged, when I was on my 17th birthday, Val met somebody, and literally it was so quick. His parents give her the money for a house, and we decided to have a double wedding.
Simon [01:14:02]: Oh wow!
Julie [01:14:03]: And I said, “I’m getting married first. You know, Val’s older; she’s three hours older than me. But I said, “I’m getting married first. I got engaged before you, so we would plan this big double wedding. Mum and Dad couldn’t believe their luck. Absolutely laughing all the way down the aisle.
Simon [01:14:18]: Because it’s just one layer of money. Right.
Julie [01:14:21]: And basically what they said was right. So we’ll pay for the reception, blah blah blah, and my mum got the caterers from Ronson’s canteen to do our wedding.
Simon [01:14:35]: That’s great.
Julie [01:14:36]: Yeah.
Simon [01:14:37]: I mean if the quality of food was good was it?
Julie [01:14:38]: Yeah you know? Actually, it was all right, but because you know they were paying for it, we didn’t sort of say it. 18’s too young to get married, too young. Literally, I think Mum and Dad took over. Really, everything I didn’t have a lot of say.
Simon [01:14:56]: What the organising of wedding?
Julie [01:14:57]: Yeah, really. You know. And actually, my ex used to work for BHC as an accountant, all training, and so we end up the BHC club, and the Ronsons. What was his name? The catering manager Charlesworth. Can’t remember his first name, but his name was Charlesworth, and yeah, he did the catering, and we had 120 people.
Simon [01:15:25]: Wow!
Julie [01:15:25]: But it was it was a buffet, like you know. But yeah, I think I remember it. It was good. So yeah, you did that.
Simon [01:15:34]: Right. And I mean, talking about the canteen.
Julie [01:15:37]: Yeah.
Simon [01:15:37]: That people seem to have thought…
Julie [01:15:39]: Oh, it was great! It was, the canteen was really really good, good choice, good choice of meal. Yeah, half an hour I think we had for our lunch, 10 minute breaks, twice a day for a quick drink and something to eat.
Simon [01:15:41]: And was it a tea trolley that came round?
Julie [01:15:49]: Do you know we did have a tea trolley? You’ve just reminded me we did.
Simon [01:16:06]: So that would be someone pushing it around the lines.
Julie [01:16:09]: Do you know? And you’ve just, you’ve just brought my, you’ve just brought a memory now. We did have a tea trolley coming down, but we also had our wages. We used to be paid weekly, and someone from the office used to come down with the trolley, with our wage packets on. I’m just going to tell you a funny story, and I was float girl one time. It was just so funny, and when you opened the packet when it had cash in. There was a lot of glue, and the glue would be sort of stringy, you know. And I was sitting on for someone, for someone on the machine called the spinner, where you pick up the screw and you. And so this person, I can’t remember who it was. So I thought, right, what I’ll do, I’ll take that off and I’ll put the glue in a mixture of the screws and things. And when she came, I went like that. Right, never said anything. Walked, and she looked and she screamed, “What have you done? What have you done here?” Because she didn’t know it was the glue from the packet. Well, weird how you think of that, isn’t it?
Simon [01:17:28]: Yeah.
Julie [01:17:30]: A jolt of a memory.
Simon [01:17:31]: Yeah, no, memory is strange, isn’t it?
Julie [01:17:34]: Oh yeah, remember that was hilarious.
Simon [01:17:36]: So, what day did the wages come round?
Julie [01:17:38]: Oh, no. No, not a clue.
Simon [01:17:41]: Wednesday, Friday, whatever. I guess it would end of the week.
Julie [01:17:43]: Well, do you what? It’s funny you should say that because the first thing I thought of was Wednesday, but I’m not saying it was Wednesday. No, I don’t know.
Simon [01:17:52]: Okay.
Julie [01:17:53]: I’ve no idea. But for that to come round weekly, and everyone really looked forward to it. You had a real big long pay slip as well, and actually, and I will say this because I didn’t know at the time that I was in a pension, and I didn’t know this at the time. Perhaps it’s just that I forgot, but I’ve I’m quite I am good with money, and I would want to make sure that I have enough like for when I retire. Retirement wasn’t on my mind at 16, and it and I’ve moved to loads of houses. I’ve had on my own loads of houses, and I remember getting the last, the last time, I lived used to live on the Mall at Newport, Carisbrooke, and I remember always having, oh your pension’s this, your pension’s this. Didn’t think anything of it seriously, and you have moved lots of times, forgot all about it, and then how many years ago? 8-9 years ago, somebody got in contact with me saying you’ve got a pension. I thought, yeah, right, yeah, okay, I believe you. And they asked me for my address. So to cut the long story short, I gave them the address, and out come this thing. And I thought, is this a scam? So I sat on it for a bit, and then when I joined the council, I said to the council, “Can you see if this is bona fide?” They said, “No, it’s up to you.” Anyway, the upshot of it was, it was a pension that I’d started at Ronson’s, and I’ve since learned because I contracted out to SERPs, and I had like 12 grand.
Simon [01:19:48]: Wow!
Julie [01:19:48]: And I wasn’t there that long, so it must have continued through my other employ.
Simon [01:19:53]: Right.
Julie [01:19:54]: I thought, wow. But that started at Ronson’s, because I found that out.
Simon [01:19:59]: Wow. Probably. All the interest on the money over the years. Great, wow! Thank you, Mr Ronson. Yes, Mrs. Indeed. Yeah. So I’ve got some closing questions here.
Simon [01:20:03]: Wow! Thank you, Mr Ronson.
Julie [01:20:06]: Yes.
Simon [01:20:06]: Or Mrs Ronson?
Julie [01:20:07]: Indeed. Yeah.
Simon [01:20:10]: So I’ve got some closing questions here.
Julie [01:20:12]: Great.
Julie [01:20:12]: Yeah.
Simon [01:20:14]: If we hadn’t recorded this, what would be lost?
Julie [01:20:18]: Oh, my enjoyment for a start because it’s been really nice. Thank you. It has. It’s been nice to talk about it, to remember, and to meet the people that we met. Yeah, it’s been it’s been really lovely, and I think it should be saved for prosperity because it’s like you were talking earlier about the farming one, you know. Some kids today don’t even know where their meat comes from or where their porridge oats come from, you know. So it is good just to remember like of what happened and to look back. And if not for like my generation, that’ll be dead soon, you know, for my grandchildren, and yeah.
Simon [01:21:04]: I mean, goodness knows what work’s going to be like in 10 years’ time. You know.
Julie [01:21:09]: AI.
Simon [01:21:09]: Yeah, yeah, it’s going to be quite different I think.
Julie [01:21:13]: It will. So yeah, I think for for people to look back at that, it’s a bit like, in a way, a bit like the war in the trenches, you know, our wars now are far completely different with drones. So you know, for me, I would be really interested. You know, if there was something like this to say, you know, the voice of someone that was actually fought a war and had been in the trenches, I think it’s good. You need it.
Simon [01:21:41]: itOkay.
Julie [01:21:42]: Hence, why I’m doing it too, and why you’ve got the funding, and I support anyone that gets lottery funding.
Simon [01:21:47]: Hooray!
Julie [01:21:48]: Yeah.
Simon [01:21:49]: What would you want children? Because we’re one of the things we’re doing is a teachers’ pack.
Julie [01:21:56]: Oh, brilliant!
Simon [01:21:56]: So the things about, it’s it’s 22 pages long. It’s quite detailed, so it’s to help, It’s focused on key stage two, and it’s helping them understand the way people lived and worked and all that sort of stuff. So, hence this question: What would you want children seven to 11 today to know about working at Ronson’s?
Julie [01:22:18]: That it’s teamwork. You work in teams. You don’t work in silos. You know. I think today that people don’t interact with people. This is where you make, you learn from strong friend foundations, and actually, even not just like people you’re own age, you know, you get a broad sense of a different, a whole community. It is a community, because you’re all in that, but there’s so varied personalities and things. Yet you all got on, and I know that sounds corny, really, but you did. You just all got on, and I mentioned earlier, over coffee, tea, that you know there was someone in particular that I thought was a bit snooty, yeah, but we didn’t say ‘them and us’. It wasn’t like that. It’s not like the school playground, you know. Like I wanted to be one of them. I didn’t want to be a swot. It’s not like that. You didn’t have, I didn’t see it, and it’s a bit like what you said about when I was a training instructor. I didn’t behave any differently than I would when I was training. I just imparted my knowledge to them. You know, no one was rude. No one was horrible to me. I had no reason to pull them up. So, yeah, it’s it’s about teamwork, working together as a team.
Simon [01:24:06]: On the last one, I’ve already asked. Is there anything I haven’t asked? Okay, that’s good. Okay, cool. So some terms here. Shell, we’ve spoken about as a plastic thing. I’ve got someone might have mentioned castle. Was there a lighter called castle, or some process involving something called a castle? I know there was chimney and all of that sort of stuff, but if not, it’s not a problem.
Julie [01:24:34]: No.
Simon [01:24:36]: Vara Flame was the trade name. I don’t know why this is important, and maybe it isn’t. How many things were on the tray? How many lighters do you have on a tray?
Julie [01:24:49]: Oh, I would say trays were about that big, and they had dips in.
Simon [01:24:58]: So what’s that like? 40cm. So 12-14, inches or so.
Julie [01:25:03]: And I would say…
Simon [01:25:06]: Oh, they lay flat.
Julie [01:25:08]: Oh yeah.
Simon [01:25:09]: Oh, I imagine them standing up.
Julie [01:25:10]: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, flat. So I’m going to say either four or six across.
Simon [01:25:23]: Okay.
Julie [01:25:25]: Yeah. So on the feed when they come, and they would be probably six. There’d be six across and six down.
Simon [01:25:34]: Okay. Six
Julie [01:25:35]: Across, six down.
Simon [01:25:36]: 24.
Julie [01:25:37]: And because when you were on feed and there were the empty shells. You would have the pile of trays in front of you, and then you would automatically pick two up. From that tray because that’s why they called it the feed, and then they would pick that up and then put them down once they’ve done. Once they’ve done, they put the starter thing in, you know. Then put them down. So you had one that side, one that side. So they fed them up that way. Yeah. Okay.
Simon [01:26:10]: That’s good. Yeah. Oh, someone. Maybe it might have been Sue. We’re saying about the fault tickets, the rubber bands that when things that must have been further up the line when they were being tested, they had all sorts of different colours for meaning what was leaking and what was.
Julie [01:26:27]: They did, well remembered Sue. Well remembered Sue. Yes. So that would mainly be when you put the, you put the flint holder in the plastic thing with the two flints, and then you’d put the flint in and shut it, and then you’d test it.
Simon [01:26:46]: Right.
Julie [01:26:48]: And it depends if it didn’t light the first time or it didn’t, you know, because things happen during flame setting to there. If it didn’t work, but I don’t know who put those. I do. What were they called? Inspectors. They had inspectors. Oh dear, they were right at the end. They were right at the top of the thing that would put them coloured bands on. So after the last job, I believe was buffing, and you’d get that, and you had a wheel, and you’d go like that and buffer it. And then you’d put them back in the tray. So the last job was putting them back in the tray. Yeah. So I don’t know when they inspected. I don’t know if they inspected after you’d done that, but you would have to test that. Yeah, I think.
Simon [01:27:11]: She remembered all the colours of the band. I guess she must have done it.
Julie [01:27:39]: Wow, she must have done it. Yeah, she must have done.
Simon [01:27:51]: There was like five or six different colours.
Julie [01:27:54]: Wow.
Simon [01:27:56]: So one thing, I mean, you talking about the buffing reminded me of your sister getting caught up in that.
Julie [01:28:03]: Yeah.
Simon [01:28:03]: What was the other sort of health? What they call health and safety these days, I guess. Yeah. Somebody pointed out on Sunday at the portrait shoot, the plastic screen for when you were lighting. Yeah. So that so it didn’t blow up in your face. I guess.
Julie [01:28:19]: So you had one line there, then a gap, a walkway, and then the other line, and then a small walkway. You had the training instructing at the bottom, and then up all the way to the toilets alongside the other second line was what we called flame setting, and you’d have about eight or nine booths, and there would be plastic round.
Simon [01:28:41]: Okay.
Julie [01:28:41]: So say that the plastic was here, finished…
Simon [01:28:48]: Either side of your shoulders.
Julie [01:28:49]: Yeah, so you would flame set like this…
Simon [01:28:53]: Arms length?
Julie [01:28:53]: Yeah. Well, I like that.
Simon [01:28:56]: Okay.
Julie [01:28:56]: I would never do flame setting. It it scared the out of me, honestly, I hated it because when someone had a blowout, that obviously stops from going some. But what people do is they throw them down, they throw them on the floor.
Simon [01:29:13]: Right.
Julie [01:29:14]: Yeah. So it’s just adjusting that flame and making sure the flame was right. But the plastic booth was to protect.
Simon [01:29:22]: Okay. So if it was going to explode, it would just damage one person.
Julie [01:29:25]: Yeah. Yeah. Horrible. Horrid.
Simon [01:29:30]: I guess it’s a bit like working in a fireworks factory. Oh yes, indeed.
Julie [01:29:34]: How do you test that one?
Simon [01:29:37]: So other words I’ve got here, and this is the last bit, is bomb that was used…
Julie [01:29:38]: Bomb.
Simon [01:29:38]: Bomb was described as the thing that when you were lighting the lighter, perhaps or whatever.
Julie [01:29:38]: So it’s a big round thing full of gas, and it’s alight all the time.
Simon [01:29:38]: Okay.
Julie [01:29:38]: So that so you go like that. With the lighter, with the shell, with the gas thing, you go like that, and it automatically lights up.
Simon [01:30:07]: So that’s before it gets the flint then I guess?
Julie [01:30:10]: Ooh yeah. That is one of the very first things they do and what can happen, when you go like that you expect a light from there, when you light it but you know if there’s a leak in the shell it will go all round. You can see it coming out of the shell.
Simon [01:30:32]: That’s another time to chuck it on the floor?
Julie [01:30:34]: Yeah and you also had a bin, once you chucked it you also had an air thing that you turned out, you know. A blow out, so everyone had one of them.
Simon [01:30:47]: Fork and chimney
Julie [01:30:49]: That would be to lift it up. To lift the valve and when they do that to regulate the frame. Yeah.
Simon [01:30:57]: Shimmies. I think might have been the rubber. Pura, I don’t know that what that is.
Julie [01:31:09]: Not the pura filters is it?
Simon [01:31:10]: Oh it might have been.And the last one is led-winder?
Julie [01:31:14]: Ooh?
Simon [01:31:16]: These are just like random words I’m saying (laughing).
Julie [01:31:20]: The led-winder? No.
Simon [01:31:21]: Or lead-winder?
Julie [01:31:22]: No.
Simon [01:31:24]: OK, not to worry. Brilliant!
Julie [01:31:31]: So have you interviewed people who worked in ancillary or auxiliary or wherever?
Simon [01:31:33]: Just on the production line, people making the lighters. What did ancillary do?
Julie [01:31:42]: Make like the bits for the lighters underneath …
Simon [01:31:47]: Who did the casting of the metal?
Julie [01:31:49]: Yeah.
Simon [01:31:50]: Unfortunately we haven’t come across anyone who has done that.
Julie [01:31:53]: There used to be a really big … when you walked to the canteen, lots of heavy machinery, that was quite loud, people used to wear ear things and eye goggles and you could see them, hear then, because not everybody that I’ve seen worked on the line.
Simon [01:32:12]: Right, who have been at the Ronson Reunited?
Julie [01:32:17]: Yeah. Karen did, oh Karen she did flame setting as well though, didn’t she. Karen, I only know as Karen Horner. Um.
Simon [01:32:27]: I mean it may be once we launch the site and put someone on County Press and other press to say this has happened it may be that other people come forward. Funnily enough, just this week a bloke wrote to us about it and said, ‘I worked there’. So that was the first man we’ve had because we did try to get some blokes involved but…
Julie [01:32:54]: There was no men on the line.No men on the line. No men on flame setting, but there were lots in ancillary. The only men were like the time and motion, the engineers, stores, because we had stores that had to keep bringing stuff out, but not just for the line, for ancillary and auxiliary, wherever.
Simon [01:33:24]: Well yeah, maybe other people come forward and we can carry on.
Julie [01:33:27]: Good.
Simon [01:33:28]: Thank you very much for your time.
Julie [01:33:29]: No, thank you, I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Simon [01:33:31]: Really good. Thanks.